New line of SUBWOOFERS?

[Jon Lane]

First, a note about where we're going in 2010. As 2010 unfolds TAI is planning to release quite a few new models. Many of you already know about our new Arx line, which replaces Acculine with a new range of very high performance budget loudspeakers. Arx will include the "original" A1 sat, the A2 center, and the A3 compact tower. Up to six new models will then fill out the line over the year.

Dana also moves to second-generation development, with three "replacement" models and with another ten or so models under development. We'll also have some exciting Swan news to report once we get that work out of development and into early production.

The Audio Insider and subwoofers. This much new product tends to raise the question if TAI will get into the subwoofer business. We've actually got a strong, advantageous position when it comes to bass products, and we could quite easily develop and offer very high performance bass systems at budget prices.

Where you can help. With this in mind, we'd like to throw the forum open to your ideas. Should we concentrate on smaller budget subs for the entry-level Arx, should we reinvent the premium finishes in classic Dana bass systems, or should we go all-out and show the market what we can do in maximum output performance bass systems?

Let me offer some examples:

• Arx could reinvent the economy 10" simple powered subwoofer and present it for $299. Larger subs would be proportionally higher.
• Dana could add a 10" with premium finishes to replace the Dana Sub600, and we could probably upgrade performance while actually lowering the cost quite a bit.
• We could enter the high-output fray with say a thousand watt performance woofer with a pair of 12" pistons, with a cabinet in real wood. We could put this into the store for well under a thousand dollars. This idea interests me quite a lot.
• We could even get into large format powered woofer systems, where the woofer becomes a major piece of furniture, say a console, what looks like a sofa table, or a large "coffee table". I've been making subs like this for almost 30 years so this end of the range is actually a piece of cake.

How you can help. Give us an idea what you think, folks. Which category makes the most sense to you? Where should the overall market go it isn't right now? What will you need to fill out your Arx, Dana, or Swan system?

I will give you a hint what motivates this post, however: We've already got seven models in planning. I won't say more until I hear from you, but we have begun to take a serious look at at least two of these classes of product. Now seems like a good time to get some of these ideas fine-tuned and we hope you can assist us in that.

[Jon Lane]

How's this for a performance window? 115dB @ 25Hz out of roughly 22" square. (The lowpass function isn't included but fits a standard adjustable 60-80Hz LR knee and slope.)

[RCDynes]

I have actually been in the market for a new subwoofer for more than two years now, but due to many life challenges, it continues to be elusive. Notwithstanding, I am still committed to purchasing a new sub to compliment my D2.1se’s when the proper opportunity arises. Also, my experience with quality subs is limited, as I have been stuck with a Def Tech Pro Sub 80 for the past 10 years or so. As such, feel free to take my feedback with a grain of salt.

As for subs, while I believe there are multitudes of entry level subs available in the marketplace, I imagine the Arx (Acculine) sub has and will continue to be a good seller for you and is therefore likely to be worthy of the continued investment. Many ID companies skip the entry level altogether, which is unfortunate for those that are more financially challenged.

As a consumer, I have never quite understood the Dana Sub, as it seems like too little for too much. Although, I guess that’s the premium to be paid for having a perfect visual compliment to your primary speakers.

As a Swans owner, I’d be most interested in seeing a powered sub with dual 12” or 15” drivers, possibly in a medium sized, sealed enclosure. A dual opposed design which creates an inert cabinet, and is reasonably similar in size to an “end table”, strikes me as the most practical and currently popular concept. Having a sub that can double as a piece of furniture really overcomes a lot of obstacles of how to place an extra box somewhere in a typical living room. And having one in a matching Khaya Crotch finish would be just outstanding, to say the least.

The coffee table idea sounds neat, but then elicits the problems of power and signal connectivity. Wireless is an option for signal, but not power, and I certainly don’t want a power cord running from my coffee table to a side wall outlet. Perhaps there are other alternatives I have overlooked???

With regard to other large format concepts, the idea of having a powered sub solution integrated into a media console would be great. But, I would guess this to be quite prohibitive logistically (shipping weight and costs, etc…). That being said, if money were no object (and it’s always an object); having a media console with modular shelving to accommodate AV equipment, including a turntable and either a vertical bookshelf (a’la 2.1se) or traditional horizontal center (1.1sec), along with a side-firing, powered sub-woofer (12 or 15 inch drivers) on each side sounds quite fantastic.

If you could share pictures or details on the types of subs you have had a hand in, it would be great to see some examples.

Well, I hope there is some meaningful feedback in all of that. Looking forward to see what’s in store……..

Cheers,

Ryan

[sac8d4]

I am looking forward to some more specs and details

[lngbruno]

I would like to see Direct Servo amps and drivers with para EQ. Amps should be class AB. Downward firing drivers would be nice too. I'm also not partial to metal cones, so I would like to see paper or paper composite.

[Jon Lane]

Originally Posted by lngbruno

I would like to see Direct Servo amps and drivers with para EQ. Amps should be class AB. Downward firing drivers would be nice too. I'm also not partial to metal cones, so I would like to see paper or paper composite.

We have just about all classes at our disposal. If anyone would like to share how AB would be superior here, I'm all ears. Is it the higher potential for higher instantaneous current?

[Jon Lane]

Originally Posted by RCDynes

As for subs, while I believe there are multitudes of entry level subs available in the marketplace, I imagine the Arx (Acculine) sub has and will continue to be a good seller for you and is therefore likely to be worthy of the continued investment. Many ID companies skip the entry level altogether, which is unfortunate for those that are more financially challenged.

On the boards but not yet in production are three base-level Arx subs in 10", 12", and 15" flavors.

Originally Posted by RCDynes

As a consumer, I have never quite understood the Dana Sub, as it seems like too little for too much. Although, I guess that’s the premium to be paid for having a perfect visual compliment to your primary speakers.

There's some truth to that and all future Dana subs will have to hit a more potent value ratio in order to compete.

Originally Posted by RCDynes

As a Swans owner, I’d be most interested in seeing a powered sub with dual 12” or 15” drivers, possibly in a medium sized, sealed enclosure. A dual opposed design which creates an inert cabinet, and is reasonably similar in size to an “end table”, strikes me as the most practical and currently popular concept. Having a sub that can double as a piece of furniture really overcomes a lot of obstacles of how to place an extra box somewhere in a typical living room. And having one in a matching Khaya Crotch finish would be just outstanding, to say the least.

While the sub-as-furniture concept came to mind concerning some custom stuff we're looking into, if Swan were to cooperate with a few pieces like you mention, I'd be behind it. As it happens (and not surprisingly) their D line includes two or three of their top woofers. Not exactly inexpensive, but definitely in the D lineage. Good ideas, RC.

Originally Posted by RCDynes

The coffee table idea sounds neat, but then elicits the problems of power and signal connectivity. Wireless is an option for signal, but not power, and I certainly don’t want a power cord running from my coffee table to a side wall outlet. Perhaps there are other alternatives I have overlooked???

You wouldn't believe the wireless tech we can utilize. Remarkable stuff.

Originally Posted by RCDynes

With regard to other large format concepts, the idea of having a powered sub solution integrated into a media console would be great. But, I would guess this to be quite prohibitive logistically (shipping weight and costs, etc…). That being said, if money were no object (and it’s always an object); having a media console with modular shelving to accommodate AV equipment, including a turntable and either a vertical bookshelf (a’la 2.1se) or traditional horizontal center (1.1sec), along with a side-firing, powered sub-woofer (12 or 15 inch drivers) on each side sounds quite fantastic.

Yes; this is the challenge meeting the benefit. They would be large, would ship truck, and would be like moving refrigerators, but this seems to be where a portion of the serious HT market is looking. It's always intrigued me and I've designed and installed about a dozen such systems already. I don't see why it wouldn't be feasible in the Internet-direct channel.

Good stuff and I hope we can narrow down some of these categories and look at prototypes.