center channel for d2.1se?

[Jon Lane]

Originally Posted by JimW

Forgive my lack of knowlegde, but I've been trying to catch up! First those Swan 2.1SEs are about the most beautiful speaker I have seen! When 2.1SE customs are mentioned, is that the way they will be sold from now on or is that and extra option?

Thank you, JimW. I have a pair of the D1.1se and a D1.1seCenter here in the office - all in Khaya Crotch - and I have to say that they really are the most flamboyant finishes I've come across in 30 years. Swan have selected these book-matched plates (all from certified, renewable lumber) from some dazzling stocks. This stuff is wildly figured and has impressive depth. As always, pictures don't do it justice, but I'll stand behind these bold statements with our usual 30 day in-home assurance guarantee.

The maple is even wilder, if in a slightly more subdued color. If you want some real sophistication and an heirloom quality wood, the maple is unbeatable. It's not cheap, but material in the top leagues never is.

Originally Posted by JimW

Only a few dozen will be bi-wired, wouldn't all of them having a bi-wire option be beneficial? Obviously this is a class leading speaker as evidenced by the Craigsub shoot-out and should be eveything you would need for 2 channel listening.

That's an understandable point (and Swan will appreciate the kind compliment). Even though I personally believe that no amount of overkill is enough overkill when it comes to high end audio, the D2.1se has never come with biwirable inputs. I'd prefer to offer that extra, over-the-top feature for this series - you really should hear them with Slinkylinks and they do indeed make a tremendous bi-wire cable set - but with as expensive as the Swans D-series all are for TAI already, and with a lot of downward market price pressure on the retail side, we feel we cannot justify bi-wiring. If there was a lot of demand for biwiring we'd introduce it in the time it took to have these models modified, but as things are now, we'll save you all about twenty dollars the pair and leave them as single inputs.

That said, the first few dozen D1.1se slipped through with biwirable inputs, as the pics show. These arrive in 2-3 weeks and as a token of our gratitude to our friends, we'll offer these ahead of standard production to existing customers at a promotional price. That newsletter should mail within two weeks.

Originally Posted by JimW

Would this be fine for a 3600 C.F. room? I would only be allowed the Maple however, but I see it costs more?

I fine-tuned the D1.1se in 4060 cu ft and I did it running them fullrange. They're still a small design, but with the huge D-series thermal capacity and a well-designed bass reflex tuning, they can take a surprising amount of input and just keep coming. As always, one can try one or the other models and decide based on their own preference. The D2.1se is the slightly more full-bodied sound, and it owing to the greater swept cone area can naturally play somewhat louder, but there's no doubt but that these are close sonic siblings.

[Jidonsu]

Please correct me if I'm wrong. My understanding that the a custom version of the D2.1se will be released to match the upcoming D1.1se and D1.1c. If so, will the release be concurrent? When can we begin ordering all three?

[Jon Lane]

Originally Posted by Jidonsu

Please correct me if I'm wrong. My understanding that the a custom version of the D2.1se will be released to match the upcoming D1.1se and D1.1c. If so, will the release be concurrent? When can we begin ordering all three?

The D2.1se Custom's release is planned for late in Feb, probably just after the other standard D-series products, the D1.1se and D1.1seCenter.

[RichLau]

I see the updated info that the D1.1se Center will be available this week but I don't see where to place my order.

Was an email sent out for "early adopters?" if so I didn't get it. I can't wait to replace my center to finally compliment my D2.1se fronts.

[sterryo]

I placed my order on Thurs 2/25, anyone else out there going to try these?

hope they ship SOON

[Jon Lane]

They're shipping!

[Jon Lane]

Originally Posted by RichLau

I see the updated info that the D1.1se Center will be available this week but I don't see where to place my order.

Was an email sent out for "early adopters?" if so I didn't get it. I can't wait to replace my center to finally compliment my D2.1se fronts.

Hi Rich! All four D series products are on this page, including the center and the new D2.1se Custom.

[sterryo]

Originally Posted by Jon Lane

They're shipping!

any tracking info yet?

[sterryo]

Received my d1.1 center speaker today and considering it will only get better as it breaks in I am very pleased. It's a little bigger than I imagined but not too big that it would be a problem. Since installing it I have been listening to my SACD/DVD-audio disks. Well my system has never sounded this good before, I have moved things around a bit this week in anticipation of my new d1.1's (Jon PLEASE get my D1.1se's SHIPPED) maybe I finally got lucky and got placement right, but I can't believe how well things sound now. Rear channels never seemed to deliver in multi-channel music before, well now it is completely different as I'm using 4 d2.1's as main and surrounds and the new center. When the d1.1's get here I'll be using them as DSX wide speakers. Anyway as the new speakers break in better I'll try to elaborate more....

The new d1.1sec really blends well with d2.1's for those who were waiting on these ( 2 big thumbs UP!!!)

more to come

[sterryo]

been running my new d1.1se's all day and thought i'd post my musings. first off the socks are way to small, took at least 10-15 minutes to remove each. thought i was going to scratch the speakers with all the tugging and cursing getting them off. moved them to the stands with my front d2.1's and plugged them in. unlike the center channel which sounded great from the get go, the d1.1's i didn't like at all, they are bright and the soundstage simply collapsed. only positive thing i can say at this time is that after a couple hours of constant playing they have improved some. i've swapped the d2.1's in and out a couple times now to listen to the differences. on my setup (onkyo 3007 avr with emotiva xpa-3 running frontstage and a yamaha dvd-s1800 playing sacd's and dvd-a), the d2.1's are night and day different. the soundstage is huge and the sound is mellower not causing any ear fatigue. i've had to turn down the d1.1's as the brightness gives me a headache.

only time will tell as i run in the speakers if they will open up like the d2.1's. the center d1.1sec has gotten a little better after about 50 hrs of use, but they sounded great from the beginning, listening to multi-channel HD sources is a richly rewarding experience, before the new center was added i preferred 2 channel stereo over multi-channel and now the vote has swung back to multi-channel.

and yes the bezels are gray like the center channel

[Jon Lane]

Good morning, all.

No worries, Terry; I know what's going on here. I have to go out for awhile (it rained in epic proportions here overnight) but let me prepare some materials that'll explain what's going on here and should lend some useful perspective for a mixed D2.1se/D1.1se setup.

Back later today.

[sterryo]

Originally Posted by Jon Lane

Good morning, all.

No worries, Terry; I know what's going on here. I have to go out for awhile (it rained in epic proportions here overnight) but let me prepare some materials that'll explain what's going on here and should lend some useful perspective for a mixed D2.1se/D1.1se setup.

Back later today.

thx, any help is appreciated

[Jon Lane]

Your comments give us an opportunity to explore the differences between the Swan D2.1se and D1.1se, sterryo. When comparing a fresh pair of Swan D1.1se to a seasoned pair of D2.1se there are at least three things to keep in mind.

The first is that a pair of "green" speakers - especially those with the relatively high mechanical losses these particular designs need in order to hit their design centers - need to be well broken in before critical evaluations. I wouldn't expect to do any comparisons until either model had acclimated for a few days and had been run and heat-cycled for up to a hundred hours. I don't know what vintage your D2.1se are, but it's clear they've been run long enough to settle in at their design center.

The midwoofers in both of the D series speakers you have use high-loss suspensions, meaning that the driver's compliance factors more into the system tuning than usual. Had the driver been designed and engineered with low-loss suspensions that rely more heavily on the motor controlling the diaphragm this would be less of a factor. (For example, our upcoming new Dana models are all low mechanical loss designs and you'll notice it immediately in the softness of the driver's outer suspensions.) Gently prod the D1.1se's rubber surround with a finger and you'll see what I mean - behind the cone there's a rear suspension that's just as stiff. You really have to exercise the suspensions in the D series in order to get the speakers to "bloom". Further, even the electrical components inside need to be formed, and this also requires quite a few cycles at fairly high currents to accomplish. Basically, play 'em fairly loud for a long time and then listen again.

Second and just as importantly, the D2.1se and D1.1se occupy decidedly different acoustical classes. As you've found, the D2.1se is designed as a powerful main "stand monitor" loudspeaker. It benefits from free-space use and will probably not be happy where the D1.1se would be best used, which is with some boundary assist. Conversely, the D1.1se, while similar in components and tuning above the middle hundreds of cycles, benefits from boundary loading in order to resemble the D2.1se's sound from free space. I think TAI can best describe the D1.1se as a bookshelf or minimonitor loudspeaker that when combined with the D2.1se stand monitor in a multi-channel system, is best nearer to a large boundary. Knowing that this was where and how most D1.1se's would be used, Swan dialed in a touch more high end in the D1.1se to balance what might be a number of decibels down low added by boundary gain.

This characteristic also makes the D1.1se suitable for relatively densely packed wall units and entertainment centers and/or used with a subwoofer set to cross it over nearly a full octave higher than the more full-bodied and much larger D2.1se. The D2.1se is a fourteen liter system and the D1.1se is only a five liter system. They share bass driver motors and tweeters, meaning that most of the parametric difference between the two speakers will show up in the F3 and less so in their relative sensitivities and overall responses. For this reason you cannot substitute one model for the other either in space or in the other's active filter setup and expect immediate success. Ideally any main speaker should be set to add its natural highpass function, including slope and frequency, to an electronic function that sums with it to mirror the subwoofer's lowpass 4th order, Q=0.5 function at that same frequency.

Lastly, you'll need to acclimate yourself to these differences, sterryo. Even without the important factors above, if you've spent a couple of years drinking a mature Shiraz, suddenly switching to a new Pinot Noir will give a sense of vivid, pronounced change. Give yourself some time to mentally settle both flavors, and experiment with pairing them with more suitable dishes - use the two different models in their optimum settings, carefully arrange your positioning and your electronic crossover settings in your AVR to suit each, and once you've passed break in, you should be loving things.

Following are the acoustic models for each model, plus for fun, the D2.1se Custom's response. Note that all are virtually identical in loudness but that the F3 vary noticeably, and in the case of the D1.1se, significantly. This is what the same motor driving an alignment less than half the size of the larger models looks like. In order, D1.1se, D2.1se, D2.1se Custom.




In summary, break them in, use them in their respective design spaces, and acclimate. Remember that there is a theoretical difference between full space loading and half space loading of six decibels, which is a phenomenal amount of level difference, some or most of which will factor in any room. We anticipated a degree of this when we designed both models and we'd be the first to agree that while the similarity in their crossovers means the D1.1se isn't bright, it's much more suitable for half space loading than the D2.1se. Neither will sound like the other if they're simply substituted back and forth in the same setting, especially fresh out of the box.

It's also possible your system is on the lean side, which when paired with a robust fullrange sound like the D2.1se, by comparison highlights the D1.1se's missing bass octave even more when you make such an abrupt switch without including these other factors. The latter is only a little over half the cone area and less than half the former's air volume. It's going to be a significant difference even without factoring break in, setups, and rooms.

If you want to delve more into this, I'd encourage you to call us and I'm sure we can walk you through it. Speakers of this class and performance level are sensitive to literally everything in the system and the room and it's partly a testimony to that ability that defines these models. The mark of a high definition loudspeaker is its ability to report back to you those factors and more and I think that with the D1.1se, Swan developed a unique solution for high definition multi-channel and multi-use that does that.

[sterryo]

In summary, break them in, use them in their respective design spaces, and acclimate. Remember that there is a theoretical difference between full space loading and half space loading of six decibels, which is a phenomenal amount of level difference, some or most of which will factor in any room. We anticipated a degree of this when we designed both models and we'd be the first to agree that while the similarity in their crossovers means the D1.1se isn't bright, it's much more suitable for half space loading than the D2.1se. Neither will sound like the other if they're simply substituted back and forth in the same setting, especially fresh out of the box.

well that is a lot of info and obviously i made several assumptions that were way off base.
I'm going to re-evaluate the whole run-in process and use the above info to better place the speakers ( ahh gotta love change ) your response does lead to hope and understanding thx very much.......

[sterryo]

moving the d1.1 close to wall shows marked improvement